Stadium Lights on Cottone Field

[LouS]

Jubashero,

Great to have another "non-violent" poster.

My intent in mentioning the households was that support (and yes, opposition) transcends demographics.

The haven't forgotten, was not intended to be directed at the poor souls and caregivers of individuals with Alzheimer's and associated dementias. It was for those with orientation to time, place, and issues.

You may have better information about the squawking issues, mine was an indirect quote.

Maxwell Park is not an equal to Mill Woods in my view. Mill Woods is shielded, where Maxwell is not. I believe that there are as many or more homes that are equal to the Cottone Field print.

As for the costs associated with the field, my offerings were to show that there was an investment in the field and a moving of resources (employees) to other town needs. You may know better about the process and that is where the elected officials come into the mix. I can understand where people may have viewed this as an issue that imposes budget outlays on future councils and thereby in their view thought a referendum might have been warranted, yes.

The BOE can determine what it wants to charge. My offered information was based upon calculations done during the field installation process, which showed that there was an inverse relationship between number of field uses and cost per use. (EX. Prior to new field the ave use was 2 per week, with practices limited due to the damage it caused. Take the 25,000 figure and it is roughly 925/use. The current field has been used at least 3-4 times per week plus full practices- soccer and football- when games are not scheduled during the fall and add the baseball and softball practices and scrimmages that were done when the other fields were not playable this spring. This does not include the youth leagues of phyed classes that may be using it. Even if we use the 50,000 figure it calculates to under 900/per use. The bottom line is for a better ROI the more uses the lower the per use price.

This has no impact on what the BOE wants to charge.

Lights would help by allowing for the 5-7:30 use during the fall and decrease the per use cost.

[Jubashero]

Thanks for the candid explanations

[SyZyGy]

From the Manager's report to the T/C 6/10/2005:

"..... 5. Board/Commission News:
• At Tuesday night’s Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, a motion was passed to direct Peter Gillespie, Town Planner, to research the athletic field lighting issue with specific attention to the zoning regulations in place in other Towns. They expect a written report by no later than July 21. At that time they will discuss how to proceed with a regulation. There was some discussion about a hearing on the regulation in early September although no date was set. It appears at this point that they may want to regulate by Special Permit and have detailed requirements in the regulations." .....

Maybe some of the "better informed" members of this forum could provide us with additional facts, interpretations and insights as to the discourse at the PZC meeting in this regard beyond that provided by the Manager. Who from the public spoke and what of import did they say? What can we sift from the comments of the 'commissioners' that evening? And most importantly, what are the chances of getting the lights installed at Cottone by September (2005)? Has an application actually been filed with the PZC (and by whom)? I for one am most interested in the "detailed requirements" which hopefully will be affixed (and enforced!) to whatever regulations for stadium lighting and expanded field use are passed.

[karolv]

I want to know who requested Town Planner Gillespie to "research the athletic field lighting issue". They (apparently the P&Z Commissioners) will then proceed with a regulation. I thought that an APPLICANT had to request some action in front of the P & Z. I did not know they could just do this spontaneously; what have I missed? What is a "special permit"? Who is going to pay for the resources (time/materials) to be used by Gillespie et al. to do this work? We all had been told there would be no cost for the lights. Surely, Gillespie is not doing this on his lunch hour. This has all the trappings of an end-run. Please tell me I'm paranoid.

[Jubashero]

Initially, I thought here we go again. However, I will defer judgment and assume the Town Manager was just doing her job of reporting items of interest to the Council, and the P&Z Commission was preparing itself for the upcoming tempest.

I included the State statutes that would be applicable for this project. By statute, the planning commission has only 35 days to evaluate a municipal improvement otherwise by default it is approved. If the commission disapproves a municipal improvement, the council has to override it with a 2/3rds vote or passed by referendum. A special permit will require a public hearing.

Section 8-24 of the Connecticut General Statutes: Municipal improvements. No municipal agency or legislative body shall (1) locate, accept, abandon, widen, narrow or extend any street, bridge, parkway or other public way, (2) locate, relocate, substantially improve, acquire land for, abandon, sell or lease any airport, park, playground, school or other municipally owned property or public building, (3) locate or extend any public housing, development, redevelopment or urban renewal project, or (4) locate or extend public utilities and terminals for water, sewerage, light, power, transit and other purposes, until the proposal to take such action has been referred to the commission for a report. Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, a municipality may take final action approving an appropriation for any proposal prior to the approval of the proposal by the commission pursuant to this section. The failure of the commission to report within thirty-five days after the date of official submission of the proposal to it for a report shall be taken as approval of the proposal. In the case of the disapproval of the proposal by the commission the reasons therefor shall be recorded and transmitted to the legislative body of the municipality. A proposal disapproved by the commission shall be adopted by the municipality or, in the case of disapproval of a proposal by the commission subsequent to final action by a municipality approving an appropriation for the proposal and the method of financing of such appropriation, such final action shall be effective, only after the subsequent approval of the proposal by (A) a two-thirds vote of the town council where one exists, or a majority vote of those present and voting in an annual or special town meeting, or (B) a two-thirds vote of the representative town meeting or city council or the warden and burgesses, as the case may be. The provisions of this section shall not apply to maintenance or repair of existing property, public ways or buildings.

Section 8-26e of the Connecticut General Statutes. Hearings by planning commission on applications for special permit or exception. Notice of decision. The planning commission of any municipality shall hold a public hearing on an application or request for a special permit or special exception, as provided in section 8-2. Any such public hearing shall be held in accordance with the provisions of section 8-7d. Such commission shall decide upon such application or request within the period of time permitted under section 8-26d. Whenever a commission grants or denies a special permit or special exception, it shall state upon its records the reason for its decision. Notice of the decision of the commission shall be published in a newspaper having a substantial circulation in the municipality and addressed by certified mail to the person who requested or applied for a special permit or special exception, by its secretary or clerk, under his signature in any written, printed, typewritten or stamped form, within fifteen days after such decision has been rendered. In any case in which such notice is not published within such fifteen-day period, the person who requested or applied for such a special permit or special exception may provide for the publication of such notice within ten days thereafter. Such permit or exception shall become effective upon the filing of a copy thereof (1) in the office of the town, city or borough clerk, as the case may be, but, in the case of a district, in the offices of both the district clerk and the town clerk of the town in which such district is located, and (2) in the land records of the town in which the affected premises are located, in accordance with the provisions of section 8-3d

The process may be working. I agree that the planner keeps track of his time and expense so that the Town is reimburshed by the applicant.

[morganika]

Hey Ho:

I've been thinking about your assumption that I am selfish. I was going to let it lay, like a sleeping dog, since you and I are such different people you could never understand where I'm coming from. However, todays heat has made me reconsider. I must tell you like it is.

So you think I'm selfish? I think people who continue to pro create in an already overpopulated world where too many children already have nothing are selfish. You have all these kids, then you have to get a big car, that I can't see around or over, drive it all around using ridiculous amounts of gas. But... ITS FOR THE KIDS you say. Then you get this big honking house to put all your kids in. You mow down farms for your big honking house BUT ITS FOR THE KIDS. Then you have to buy them a lot of stuff, I mean kids need STUFF right? Gotta fill up that big house right? And then, you want everybody else to pay your your kids.

You guys have no idea or care that you are dangerously usurping the worlds resources. What do you care? We are the only country that drives around in gigantic SUVS using up gasoline like its water.

I don't think I am the selfish one here.

[hodiddly]

Morganika, Let me begin by stating that I said only that you sound selfish. Not knowing you in person, I cannot honestly assume that you are selfish. You seem to be willing to make many assumptions, however. How would you possibly know what kind of car I drive, or what type of a house I live in? For the record, I do not live in a big honking house nor do I drive a big honking SUV. My wife works full time as do I so that we may support our family. I have not used the term "it's for the kids" however I have stated that I believe that today's children are tomorrow's leaders.

[oldetowne]

During "other business", a member of the PZC made a motion to have the town planner study what other towns' regulations say with respect to lighting of athletic fields and generally, and to report back to the commission with his findings in July. The purpose of the motion was to have the planner study the issue - both with respect to field lights and otherwise - because it is generally acknowledged that the 14' height limit really may not make any sense. The commission's intention apparently was to have the information available to it, so that it can have a context within which to evaluate any applications that may be made by the town, the board of ed, or whomever, not so that PZC can make its own application to install lights. It is for the purpose of getting more information on a subject that is almost certain to arise in the short term - but almost certainly not for lights by September 2005.

[SyZyGy]

I presume that the PZC meeting was held on 6/21/2005. Is there anyone here who could bring us up to date on the issue of proposed lights on Cottone Field as it may have been discussed and dealt with at this meeting?

The PZC members as listed on the Town's website are:
Theresa A. Forsthingy, V. Chr.
John Hallisey
Joseph L. Hammer, Chr.
Robert P. Jurasin
Philip Knecht, Clerk
Earle R. Munroe
George B. Oickle
Richard R Roberts
Margaret M. Wagner
Alternates:
John A. Adamian
David Edwards III
Peter Leombruni

[oldetowne]

Forsthingy? Gee whiz... that "naughty word blocker" goes to pretty extreme lengths.

Sources indicate that neither regulations pertaining to lights generally nor Cottone Field in particular were discussed that night. Note that there are several changes in membership effective July 1.

[SyZyGy]

Note that there are several changes in membership effective July 1.

OT:

I reviewed the list of members of the current PZC as presented on the Town Clerk's section of the Town's website

www.wethersfieldct.com/clerk/appointments.html

and I found no clue as to who will be joining and who will be leaving the PZC effective 7/1/2005. Would you please let us know what those changes will be?

[oldetowne]

Does anyone know whether the town planner's report is on the agenda for next Tuesday's meeting?

[cruzrt]

The newly appointed P&Z people are: Thomas Harley, Dorcas McHugh, Fred Petrelli, and Dan Camilliere (alternate). All 4 are Democrats. The members whose terms expired June 30 2005 are Earle Munroe (Repub), Rich Roberts (Repub), George Oickle, and Adamian (alternate). So, the Dems. add at least 2 members to P&Z. So, now it's assured that the Lights will be pushed through. There are rumors that this will be discussed at the July 19th P&Z. Their meetings are no longer televised or video taped.

[SyZyGy]

Under the FOI, the public is empowered and allowed to record such a meeting. Any sufficiently motivated member of the public may, without interference from or preclusion by the PZC, record this meeting in any appropriate manner as long at that process does not materially interfere with the performance of that commission's duties or process. The commission must make appropriate and suitable accommodations for the public to perform its own duty - the oversight of elements of our own government.

So, is there anyone out there sufficiently motivated to do that?

Getting it televised (WCTV-14) is a lesser concern that capturing the content, context and texture of the meeting.

[karolv]

That list of P & Z members that is posted on the Town's website shows that 8 of the total 12 full members and alternates are Democrats. Do any of the posters on this site know what the rules are for balance between the 2 parties? If the majority Council party gets to appoint most of the members of high-impact commissions like P & Z, then this ought to become a major campaign issue in Council races. (Sort of like GW Bush getting to appoint his own kind of Supreme Court Justices). Maybe there is something in the Town Charter on this; if so, can a poster tell us where to look.,