Holiday celebration in the schools

[nyggirl]

I am very upset about this , I just found out that the elementary schools are allowing the kindergarten kids to wear there costumes today but the rest of the school is not , how fair is this ?
They say the reason the kids arent aloud to wear there costumes is not all children celebrate this holiday well it seems to be a double standard because we allow them to be worn in kindergarten but once you hit first grade you might affend someone. (This sounds a little abserd)
You also say we can have a Halloween party in the classroom but they can have a Halloween dance at the same school at night?
You are so worried about being politically correct you forget that children need to learn diversity and about other cultures and beliefs, we have children of all ethnic back rounds why not use that in a way to teach each other of the many cultures around them.
You take away Halloween and Christmas celebration and soon school will be just work not fun and besides if you could do a Christmas, Hannaka and Kwanza celabration I am sure that all the parents would agree we shouldn't shelter our kids we should teach them that the world is made up of many different people with different cultures lets share them and maybe our children will help fight the prejudice in the world becuase they learned early we are all the same on the inside were it counts.

[ThePatriot]

It all ties in with ACLU trying to get rid of The Constitution, The Pledge of Allegiance, Prayer and everything else this country stands for.

[MrsB]

You know I was just thinking about this too. Halloween is, in my opinion, a commercial holiday.

SO the issue you are upset with is the lack of holidays celebrated in school. I agree with you and would also like to see the high holidays of other cultures celebrated in our schools, but really, this being the melting pot of America--what are we talking about?

baha’i
Festival of Ridvan: April 21
Declaration of the Bab: May 23
Ascension of the Baha'u'llah: May 29
Martyrdom of the Bab: July 09
Birth of the Bab: October 20
Birth of Baha'u'llah: November 12

Christian
St. Basil's Day (Eastern Orthodox): January 01
St. Anthony's Day: January 17
Candlemass (Catholic/Eastern Orthodox): February 02
Lent (Eastern Orthodox): February 23
Ash Wednesday / Lent Begins: February 25
Feast of Annunciation (Catholic): March 25
Lazarus Saturday (Eastern Orthodox): April 03
Palm Sunday: April 04
Holy Thursday / Maundy Thursday: April 08
Easter: April 11
Trinity Sunday: May 06
Ascension Day/Feast of the Ascension: May 20
Pentecost: May 30
Festival of All Saints (Eastern Orthodox): June 06
Corpus Christi (Catholic): June 13
Peter & Paul Day: June 29
Feast of the Assumption (Catholic): August 15
Michaelmas (Catholic): September 29
World Communion Sunday: October 03
St. Francis of Assisi Feast Day (Catholic): October 04
All Saints' Day (Catholic): November 01
All Souls Day (Catholic): November 02
Feast of the Immaculate Conception (Catholic): December 08
Christmas: December 25

Islamic
Eid-Al-Adha: February 02
Muharramn (Islamic New Year): February 22
Ramadan Begins in North America: October 16
Lailat Ul Qadr (Night of Power): November 10
Eid-Al-Fitr (Celebrating the Fast): November 14

Jewish
Asarah B'Tevet: January 04*
Tu B'Shvat: February 07*
Fast Of Esther: March 04*
Purim: March 07*
Passover/Pesach: April 05*
Lag B'Omer: May 09*
Shavuot: May 25*
Jerusalem Day (Israel): May 30*
Tisha B'av: July 27*
Rosh Hashanah (Jewish New Year): September 15*
Yom Kippur: September 24*
Simchat Torah: October 08*
Chanukah: December 07*
Asarah B'Tevet: December 22*

Pagan
Imbolic: February 02
Ostara: March 21st (vernal equinox)
Beltane: May 1st
Litha / Midsummer: June 20 (summer solstice)
Lughnasadh / Lamma: August 1st
Mabon: September 22 (autumn equinox)
Samhain: October 31
Yule: December 21

Wican
Imbolic: February 02
Midsummer: June 20
Lughnasadh: August 01
Mabon: September 22
Samhain: October 31
Yule: December 21

There are more....these are just a scant few...I have, for brevity left out most of the worlds cultures.

So who shall teach the meaning of all of these holidays? Teachers? Which ones? What will be replaced on the curriculum, that we can have this new sensitivity towards our fellow Americans?

I agree with you on the fact that kids should know a modified form of who believes what and that they should be sensitive to it. But it’s my job to teach my kids that information. With NCLB in effect dictating what has importance in the school curriculum, i.e. if it’s tested its important, the teachers have no time to write sensitive and appropriate curriculum for religious holidays.

As for Kindergarteners getting to wear their costume... I think all that stuff should stay at home. School is not a place to party. I am more upset that they waste time on parties instead of teaching, it only a 1/2 day!! Who has time to party!

[nyggirl]

What happen to when we were in school? I mean we celebrated all these Holidays and there was never any issue of ethnic back round or religion issues.
Today we had my daughters get together ( we couldnt even call it a party....with out using the word Halloween just party was a no no)
How small minded have we become when we feel all of a sudden we have to be so PC about everything, I want my children to know that is so much out there and why not in school...
and I want my daughter to say the Pledge with the words one Nation under GOD...

[MrsB]

Then sadly I must say that you should look in to a private Unitarian Universal school UU's love everyone and celebrate them all. (I know because I am one). Because if you want your kids to know and feel all that, it’s just not going to happen in the public sector.

There are things that can not be spoken in schools today. WHY? Because sometime at some point someone sued the pants off a school system for doing exactly what we can't do now. How many kids did you know in elementary school back then with a lawyer coming to parent teacher meetings? Don’t laugh it happens right here in ye' most ancient town! Sad isn't it?

[nyggirl]

If I could home school my children I would but then they would miss out on interaction with other kids there age.

[LouS]

And we now continue this tradition of barring a demonstrative celebration of Christmas. Do not say Merry Christmas, as it may negatively impact someone somewhere. How about Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

The reason there is a Holiday (on a national basis) which includes all those from the ACLU, etc., is that it is a celebration of the birth of Christ. This in no way undermines my friends' traditions relative to their heritage and upbringing, nor should it limit their celebration.

Contrary to those that want to ban this type of celebration, the rational thought process would be to include the different celebrations, whether they are religious or secular (as we see many of the celebrated aspects may be either ex. Holloween, Kawanza).

Diversity is extended by understanding everyone’s differences, not by excluding them.

Look at the press clippings that report ridiculous court decisions based on a warped view of the constitution.

The practical application for a classroom is to reinforce the diverse attributes of each, not by omission but commission. I do not know how a teacher will do this that is for the teachers to develop depending on demographics.

This may be viewed as over the top, but if and when the ACLU and those associated with this movement are allowed, due to their promotional rationalization (currently misguided and full of deception) that they are protecting the rights of all, to remove God and our beliefs from the government and schools we will see the eventual "fall of the Roman Empire" revisited.

As a sociologist, it is not hard to see where the original good deeds and sentiment got turned around and in the wake have created a void that parents are scrambling to bridge. Many do not have the tools. Schools are trying, the government is trying, etc., etc., but the secularism, individualism, instant gratification and the like have cut into our culture (much like the slash and burn philosophy) to an extent that everyone is searching for that "something".

The lines are being drawn, as has been depicted and written about during the presidential campaign. There are not as many sides to an issue as one might think.

Who's interested?

[MrsB]

Lou solid points as usual. BUT-- putting this on the teachers is not the answer. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the biggest one is that religion and the celebration if faith is not on the tests.
I can't stress enough how NCLB is revolutionizing the way teachers MUST TEACH. There is no money to develop curriculum on faith. There is no time in the day to teach about anything but tested subjects.

Aside from that, teachers are not parents. They are there to teach academic subjects and help guide children, reinforcing the skills they are learning at home. It is the parents RESPONSIBILITY to nurture a well rounded child. Even with out understanding faith, the practice and celebration of those faiths, PARENTS need to supply the underlying principals of tolerance.

Where is faith going to fit into the next generation's collective psyche? I don’t know. But I can tell you that as a society we can’t watch the shows on TV today "religiously", buy into the consumerism of this season, and still somehow crank out moral children. They are imprints of us, they do what they see done plain and simple. If mom and dad can’t wait to watch survivor, or Temptation Island or desperate housewives every week then what message is that sending. How many people balance that TV fix with the same desperate need to have dinner every night as a family and TALK, to attend services as a family and talk about the service and what it means to you. Sadly, I am not seeing a whole lot of balance.

In order for children to be spiritual, parents need to model that behavior. Parents need to show the child how to nourish their own spirit, in doing so the respect for others will come naturally.

Parties in school mean very little. It’s a party the kids want; perhaps the way around this is to have a winter break party. A celebration of community as done in the past, to band together for the harsh winter ahead, to remind us why we are neighbors and to celebrate the unity of the community. Unfortunately you are never again going to be able to call it a Christmas party with out the lawsuits and letters to the editor.

This doesn't make me happy, my tree is trimmed and the cookies are made for Santa. Personally I love my holiday. I have fond memories of Christmas parties in school; this is something my kids will miss out on. However, my kids have done several little projects this past few months learning about other peoples holidays. In the absence of having a TV they are not subjugated to the media telling them what they want, what they need. My older daughter wants a (one) my little pony, not the castle not all of them. Just one. Compared to her friends that is a startling contrast. She is however looking forward to her grammy's big Christmas eve Wigilia, and seeing her family from far away.
What do I do different? I never talk about the commercial that Christmas has become. We talk about the seasons changing and community, about the person that Jesus was and the example of behavior that he left for us. That is how I choose to raise my children, Teachers are good for a lot of things but they can't instill a set of values into a child that the family doesn’t have already.


Here is an interesting link to a series on NPR, if you have time to listen I found it very interesting.


www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4200745

[LouS]

Mrs. B,

When I reopened this topic and started to write I had a small grin on because I knew I could count on you for valid input.

I guess your point of teaching to tests, etc., is where teachers are for the reasons you state. Never expecting the teacher to become the parent, we are very aware that, begrudgingly, teachers are taking this on and have been doing this to some extent for a while.

I guess I know that teachers cannot do what we, as school aged children experienced, relative to Holidays, but I still see commission rather than omission as the way to go.

Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays...please choose the greeting that you would like (kiddding).

[AB]

I don't understand why we can't talk about Christmas in school. Regardless of its religious significance, Christmas is a federal/state holiday. All the other holidays are talked about and explained, and also feature decorations, parties, skits, etc. If nothing else, Christmas should be explained in that context. If not, why should it be a holiday from school/work? I'm sure some Native Americans object to Thanksgiving or Columbus Day; some southerners object to Lincoln's birthday; some pacificists to Memorial Day or Veterans' Day; etc. You can't please everyone all the time. The phrase is not freedom FROM religion but rather freedom OF religion. Also, it's all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR (NOT by the government) with certain inalienable rights.

[MrsB]

LOUS,
Thanks and Merry Christmas to you too. I was pleased to have something to discuss besides the banter of the past few weeks!

AB, Hi and thanks for posting.
We Can talk about Christmas. But we CAN'T expect that the schools, with the limited and stretched out budgets that they have already, will take time from tested curriculum to teach religion. We have Christmas off here because historically this is a Christian majority community, or has been in the past. Now West Hartford, Glastonbury ....they have some of the Jewish High holidays off. I am sure no one complains about that either.

The primary point here is that we keep coming back to the talking point of why oh why won't the schools participate in religious education. Tax dollars can not go towards that kind of curriculum. The same way you can't use federal scholarship monies to go to seminary. You (as in the general population) should be doing all those skits and projects with your kids on other religions. You should be getting them involved in tolerance youth groups and public service outings. This part of your child's education is for you to fill.

Have a great Holiday Everyone, Enjoy your time off if you have it!

[AB]

Mrs B - Agree that public schools should not teach religion itself. They can and should, however, teach about religion as part of history, current events, and other subjects.

[MrsB]

You are right. And where it fits in with the curriculum I am sure that they do -or- Let me say that I should hope that they do. But just as we are having this discussion of tolerance, there are parents that are fuming mad when a teacher discusses other faiths. OTHER LIFESTYLES. It is a sensitive issue, you are a pro-homeland orthodox Jew and your kid comes home from school having to write a persuasion paper on why the Palestinians have a right to a home land, for debate against a kid, writing the same paper from a Jewish perspective. Or you’re a science teacher and you just told the class that the earth is 4.6 billion years old. Let me tell you every year there are phone calls on that one, right here in town. MrB starts out that conversation EVERY YEAR with SCIENTISITS believe that the Earth is 4.6 Billion years old. Still folks call concerned. Kids get upset....that is not even a religious discussion. These parents that do get upset have every right to teach there children what their church determines as the correct age of the Earth. But it is a science teacher's job to tell the students what is currently known in the world of SCIENCE. This is such a sticky issue!! What must that kid feel when confronted with these options? I just don’t think the general population is as tolerant as you may think.

However, all this is coming up now because of the holidays. The conversation was started during Halloween and it continues now. Mainly, because of an absence of acknowledgement of the Christian holiday Christmas. What that tells me is that we as a society are focused on our own traditions, and in order to keep the Christmas party and the pageant ...ECT. We are willing to tolerate the others. Maybe I am wrong.

The feeling I have is that non Christians have had to put up with this Christmas stuff far longer than we have been with out it. Kids are marked absent for taking off their high holidays. Only some of our Hartford area schools will allow the children to have those days off without consequence. Then we tell the Jewish kids they have to have break during our holiday. Hanukah has been over for a while. How fair is that??
These are the grey areas that are avoided when we leave out religious celebration in the schools.

[AB]

MrsB - good analysis. You've obviously had a lot of experience dealing with these issues.

I don't think that an academic analysis of an issue, and the study of conflicting viewpoints, should be threatening or distasteful to anyone. That sounds to me like one of the main purposes of education.

I also don't agree that anyone has to do anything - rather, they choose to do so. Non-Christians don't have to put up with Christmas - they choose to live in what is largely a Christian community and so are exposed to it. Similarly, Jewish kids don't have to take their school break over Christmas - they choose to attend public schools. If the vacation schedule, either in itself or together with other factors, is so distasteful to them, they are free to attend private schools, be home-schooled, or form their own school. Everyone has to realize that you can't have everything you want and that using a public service requires some compromise. It's kind of like using public transportation - the bus doesn't stop in front of everyone's house. If that's of utmost importance to you, then buy a house with a bus stop in front of it (although in Wethersfield, that person would probably then complain about the noise, fumes and traffic).