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Post by cruzrt on Dec 28, 2005 19:58:44 GMT -5
That Hartford Courant story today has some interesting quotes. To paraphrase remarks attributed to the Town Clerk, "too much in the minutes, and none of it is checked for factual accuracy. People say whatever they want ..." Well, we know she's including Public Comment in what she said, but if you examine the minutes of the last 2 Council meetings (the ones that have been severely edited), remarks by Councillors have also been dramatically cut. So, I'd have to believe that her remarks to the Courant reporter were not just aimed at the public.
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Post by Dr.Ken Sokolowski on Dec 28, 2005 20:30:22 GMT -5
That posting earlier today by Jubashero about Section 1-225 clearly shows a distinction between the "votes document" that must be made available within 48 hours, and a "minutes document" that must be made available within 7 days. If Jubashero has accurately posted the wording from 1-225, that destroys the Town Clerk's case for the law requiring ONLY attendance and votes recording. Do we have any legal beagles on the board who can verify that 1-225wording?
Please refer back to page one of this thread where a prior post of mine is entitled and dated:
Minutes & Public's Right to Know (FOI)
« Reply #5 on Dec 22, 2005, 11:37am »
In the navigation bar, the "FOI" link takes you to:
THE CONNECTICUT FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT
AS CODIFIED IN CHAPTER 14 OF CONNECTICUT GENERAL STATUTES
(INCLUDING 2000 AMENDMENTS)*
*"NOTE: This compilation of the Freedom of Information Act is unofficial and for the convenience of the public only. While every effort was made to attain complete accuracy herein, the reader is advised to consult the Connecticut General Statutes for the official codification of the law."
Sec. 1-225. (Formerly Sec. 1-21). Meetings of government agencies to be public. Recording of votes. Schedule and agenda of meetings to be filed. Notice of special meetings. Executive sessions. (a) The meetings of all public agencies, except executive sessions as defined in subdivision (6) of section 1-200, shall be open to the public. The votes of each member of any such public agency upon any issue before such public agency shall be reduced to writing and made available for public inspection within forty-eight hours and shall also be recorded in the minutes of the session at which taken, which minutes shall be available for public inspection within seven days of the session to which they refer. |
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Post by Dr.Ken Sokolowski on Dec 29, 2005 6:30:28 GMT -5
I believe it was oldetowne who raised the point that this current "minutes" matter and "format" change could be just the tip of an embarrassing administrative nightmare - boards and commissions routinely not completing and submitting to the Clerk the requisite (at a maximum) 48-hour "motions and votes" list (which the Clerk is currently trying to pass off as "minutes") to be followed (within seven days) the inclusive, true minutes of regular meetings of the various boards and commissions, including the Town Council and the Board of Education (which hasn't even been discussed here so far).
I visited the the Town's website and extracted from its page involving appointments to B&C's the following partial list. (I have not included here those entries which did not seem fitting - such as harbor master, fence viewers, municipal agents, etc.). Please pardon the ALL CAPS since they they were used on the Town's website as subheadings for the listed appointees.ARTIFICIAL SURFACE FOOTBALL FIELD ADVISORY COMMITTEE
ASSESSMENT APPEALS, BOARD OF
BUILDING COMMITTEE, TOWN HALL/LIBRARY II
BUILDING APPEALS, Board of
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS ADVISORY COMMITTEE
CITATION HEARING BOARD
CONSERVATION COMMISSION
CULTURE AND THE ARTS, Committee on
DESIGN REVIEW ADVISORY COMMITTEE
DISABILITIES, WETHERSFIELD ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR PEOPLE WITH
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND IMPROVEMENT COMMISSION
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE COMMITTEE
ETHICS, Board of
FAIR RENT COMMISSION
FLOOD & EROSION CONTROL BOARD
HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
HOUSING AUTHORITY
HUMAN RIGHTS AND RELATIONS COMMISSION
INFORMATION & TECHNOLOGY COMMITTEE
INLAND WETLANDS AND WATER COURSES COMMISSION
INSURANCE COMMITTEE
LIBRARY BOARD OF DIRECTORS
PARKS & RECREATION BOARD
PERSONNEL APPEALS BOARD
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
SENIOR CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE
SHADE TREE COMMISSION
SILAS DEANE HIGHWAY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
SOLOMON WELLES HOUSE COMMITTEE
STRATEGIC PLAN COMMITTEE
TOURISM COMMISSION
VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS' PENSION COMMITTEE
YOUTH ADVISORY BOARD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS To help the public understand the extent of non-compliance with the FOIC/CGS statutes and regulations on the part of the Town, it might be a good idea to - "FOI" the Town via the Clerk and the Manager, to produce a complete list (as of this moment) of such delinquent B&C's that are have not submitted their minutes to the Clerk YET,
- indicating the number of such missing minutes per B-or-C, and
- indicating the number of days that such missing minutes are now in non-compliance with State regulations.
Since the Clerk has brought up the issue of the difficulty for various responsible parties in the administration and in each of the B&C's to create and submit minutes of meeting in the required, timely fashion to the Clerk, the public has a right to know the extent of the purported problem.
The Clerk and the Manager have yet to provide the Council and the Public any detailed or itemized public information backing up this allegation.
Nonetheless, this sounds like an administrative problem that should not be foisted off on the public in the form of an easy way out of their current dilemma especially at the expense of expunging by exclusion important elements of what transpires in meetings of those B&C's.
Maybe it is time for the town administration to take the responsible members ("secretary", "clerk", or even the Chair or vice chair") of the various B&C's to the "woodshed:" "produce the motions, votes, and minutes on time - or resign. The public and State statutes demand this information!"
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Post by morganika on Dec 29, 2005 8:25:31 GMT -5
The incompetency of the elected officials in this town is an embarassment. All they can worry about is plastic grass and a dog park. They can't even get it together enough to put together the required minutes. Who votes for these clowns?
I think the Town Clerk needs to be FIRED. The mayor should be driven from the town borders and everyone else should hang their heads in shame.
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stvman
Bronze Member
Posts: 23 
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Post by stvman on Dec 29, 2005 9:44:59 GMT -5
A common refrain the last few years has been to compare how we (Wethersfield) do things in relation to Berlin CT. Let's take a look at how that town government handles its minutes. Real easy to find their website; just use google.com with a search argument of 'Berlin Connecticut Town Hall'. When you get there, notice how complete, and detailed, and up-to-date all the minutes are for the Town Council, P&Z, and the rest of their commissions. It will take you awhile to go thru the minutes, because they are extensive.
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Post by oldetowne on Dec 29, 2005 10:52:00 GMT -5
We compare badly with almost every other town in what our website contains and how well it functions. It's not the fault of the town's webmaster - he's a good, decent, hardworking guy - because that is merely one of his many duties. The minutes are rarely if ever forwarded to him, the Town Manager's "welcome" letter is almost two years old, the email system in town hall rarely works as expected.
I guess, as with so many things, it's a matter of priorities. Making information available and accessible to the public and permitting them to interact quickly with town staff clearly isn't one of them.
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Post by morganika on Dec 29, 2005 11:01:00 GMT -5
I think the website is nice, but yes I did notice the welcome message was pretty old.
When I look at other towns we would like to move to, I always look at their websites so I can see what the town might be like. What would someone think if they looked at ours and saw that old message? They would think perhaps ALL of our information was not current, which isn't true.
I think everyone is concerned about Wethersfield's image. Should we change our motto to: Most Ancient Information Town!
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Post by cruzrt on Dec 29, 2005 19:43:02 GMT -5
The proposed changes to minutes format have been presented as affecting ALL boards and commissions, not just the Town Council. At least 3 of those organizations are vital to residents, Board of Education, Planning & Zoning, and Zoning Board of Appeals. Do our posters have any grass roots indicators as to how those members feel about this? And, are those members or their chairpersons going to speak out publicly on this issue?
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Post by Dr.Ken Sokolowski on Dec 29, 2005 20:53:04 GMT -5
EXECUTIVE SESSION - Pending Litigation - 6:15 PM -
Town Manager's Conference Room
TOWN COUNCIL AGENDA
Tuesday, January 3, 2006 - 7:00 PM
Silas Deane Middle School - Auditorium
Pledge of Allegiance
Report from Peter Gillespie - Economic Development Monthly Report
Recording of Attendance by Town Clerk
A. PUBLIC COMMENTS
The Chairman may indicate those matters of unfinished business to be considered.
.....1. Hearings:
........a. Rules and Procedures of Town Council
........b. Ordinance - Declaration of Local Disaster Emergency
.....2. General Comments
........a. Public
........b. Council
B. COUNCIL ACTION
.....1. Ordinances, Resolutions and Appointments for Action
................a. Acceptance of Resignations from Boards and Commissions
................b. Appointments to Boards and Commissions
................c. Rules and Procedures of Town Council
................d. Ordinance - Declaration of Local Disaster Emergency
........2. Unfinished Business:
................a. *Change in Town Council Minute Format
................* Recommend taking these items off of the table.
........3. Other Business
................a. Dissolution of the Artificial Surface Football Committee
........4. Bids
................a. Scott Packs for the Fire Department (Grant Money)
........5. Ordinances, Resolutions and Appointments for Introduction
................a. Resolution - Property Tax Increase Limitation for Senior Citizens
........6. Minutes
................a. December 19, 2005 - [Yeah, but in what format will these "minutes" be in; will there be a meaningful discussion of the minutes; will there be offered alternative minutes; will the public's interests be served?]
C. ADJOURNMENT
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Post by Dr.Ken Sokolowski on Dec 30, 2005 8:50:12 GMT -5
The following is an excerpt of an email I recently sent a member of the media which more or less covers Wethersfield.
The access of the public to information from and about the workings of their elected governments is critical. The healthy, detailed minutes which have for years been prepared by the office of the Town Clerk, both the current Clerk and her predecessors, are essential for the corporate and civic history of our Town.
It is almost pharisaic for the current Clerk, the Manager, and (at least initially) the Chair of the Council to say that that minutes of meetings are purely to satisfy the most elemental legal requirements: motions and votes and attendance. This flies in the face of "legislative history" which is practiced to the Nth degree by most US deliberative bodies at the State and Federal levels.
I do not for a moment believe that the Clerk's office is overworked (she has three assistant town clerks!); the Town's budget has been adjusted to encompass their labors and salaries. I don't believe that 'Nip/Tucking' the minutes will result in any saving to the taxpayers, but such political surgery will result in short and long-term detriment to the body politic in Wethersfield.
I also believe that their (Clerk's, Manager's, some Councilors' ) understanding and application of the FOIA/CT is flawed. As you review the CGS and the information posted on the FOIC's webpages on the State's website, it should be clear to you as it is to most of us on "this" side of the issue, that the reporting of the Clerk of the "motions and votes" (of Boards, Commissions, and Committees -BCC's- of the Town) within 48 hours is NOT the same as the reporting of the "minutes" which is due from the Clerk's office within 7 days (calendar, in the case of regular meetings, longer in the case of special meetings of the BCC's).
Just because it suits the purposes of Clerk, Manager and some Councilors to call the reporting of the "motions and votes" the "minutes" does not make it so! (I will grant you that I do not understand at present how the Town of Rocky Hill can persist in doing just that; I am convinced that it has not and does not serve the citizens of Rocky Hill either! Of course, it is at least, very convenient that Wethersfield should be attempting to switch to these flawed Rock Hill formatted "reports" - I just can't bring myself to call them minutes.)
As others on-line and around town, I am am anxious (in the true sense of the word) about the format of the minutes which the Clerk is going to present to the Council on Tuesday, 1/3/2006. More importantly, I am most concerned about how the Councilors, individually and collectively will respond to them. I wonder whether the majority Council has the gonadal fortitude to openly deliberate on them and then to table her "minutes" for further consideration and perhaps directed revisions.
In the time remaining before your departure, please see if you can arrange to have a colleague of equal skills review what I have presented to you here and on-line and to have him/her "cover" Tuesday's meeting at the Silas Deane Middle School's auditorium (7:00 PM). The public needs to be informed about what the Council is doing and what it has done in this matter.
The more meager the minutes, the more important the role of the Press to report the essential details of our meetings.
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Post by cruzrt on Dec 30, 2005 9:36:24 GMT -5
Can the Foot Dr. explain what 'pharisaic' means for us?
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stvman
Bronze Member
Posts: 23
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Post by stvman on Dec 30, 2005 10:30:16 GMT -5
The agenda for the January 3, 2006 Council meeting shows a title of "Change in Town Council Minutes Format". Does this mean that the Boards and Commissions will not be included in the rules changes? If that is correct, then the $25,000 savings for contractor clerical & transcriber services is no longer a justification for the changes.
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Post by Jubashero on Dec 30, 2005 10:32:05 GMT -5
I don’t think that there is a big conspiracy, the mayor likely asked that the manager to ensure that FOI requirements are met, and the manager in turn, asked the clerk. The clerk, being a good civil servant, came up with the minimal work effort, and the manager and mayor, unwilling to upset civil service employees, developed an ad hoc committee that determined bogus yet seemingly realistic justifications for their decision. Is that good government at work?
This trend in limited information is consistent with the current administration narrow vision of regulations and their responsibility for public information. Do you remember back in the debate on the referenda about the lights issue that the manager expressed an opinion was that future generations would not have any idea about grandfathering because it was not specifically written in the proposed regulations. (Check out the town council minutes before they disappear.) Whether or not you agree with the idea of original intent, we do know how original decisions were made because of written documents of the past generations.
So as far as I’m concern, if the focus is purely on the here and now, change the minutes. And for that matter, eliminate the proceedings of the State House and Senate, and the Federal Register. Teach the children to do the minimum to evade any responsibility, especially if they are incompetent.
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Post by Dr.Ken Sokolowski on Dec 30, 2005 10:55:31 GMT -5
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Post by Dr.Ken Sokolowski on Dec 30, 2005 11:06:27 GMT -5
I received the following message from the Town Clerk a short while ago; here it is. The attachment (Letter from the Town Attorney, dated 12/28/2005) will be posted as soon as possible - you have GOT to read it!). Stay tuned! Note: In the following, I have added emphasis with underlining! The copy she gave me 1 week ago, 12/23/2005, is what I have referred to as the first version not the second/ Ohanesian ("experiment") version. Also, because of the naughty word filter of this forum I was forced to insert a space after the first than second letters of the word "a s sistant", but not in another part of this message?
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